[He Keith]

I used to do it in the wheels but first failure I decides to do tires then just use the brush on the wheelers since the wheels do not get very dirty. I also rinse them thoroughly as the last step of my wash. I then pull car in and dry it with my blower making sure to get inside the rear brakes. The problem is the rotors are likely wet when I pull it in so wherever the rotors stop and parking brake engages is likely trapping moisture and thus the chemical reaction begins. Oddly I am not sure what other factors cause the issue as I have done this a few times and and just this last time was the worst seize. Ironically I bought some Meguiar's Hot Rims Wheel & Tire Cleaner to use this time, but I have used several name brands in the past.what I find odd is while the T5 does not engage the parking brake automatically if it were the chemical I was using I would expect her rotors to oxizide and at least hear that initial rubbing when the pads take off the oxidation layer. What this tells me is either the pads/rotors are different material or is has nothing to do with the rotors oxizing, but rather the moisture kicking off a checmical reaction when the pads and rotors are pressed together with the parking brake engaged. I assume the latter since these pads look like they are used on other Volvos as possible the rotors as well.

 

[SeattleCat]

I used to do it in the wheels but first failure I decides to do tires then just use the brush on the wheelers since the wheels do not get very dirty. I also rinse them thoroughly as the last step of my wash. I then pull car in and dry it with my blower making sure to get inside the rear brakes. The problem is the rotors are likely wet when I pull it in so wherever the rotors stop and parking brake engages is likely trapping moisture and thus the chemical reaction begins. Oddly I am not sure what other factors cause the issue as I have done this a few times and and just this last time was the worst seize. Ironically I bought some Meguiar's Hot Rims Wheel & Tire Cleaner to use this time, but I have used several name brands in the past.what I find odd is while the T5 does not engage the parking brake automatically if it were the chemical I was using I would expect her rotors to oxizide and at least hear that initial rubbing when the pads take off the oxidation layer. What this tells me is either the pads/rotors are different material or is has nothing to do with the rotors oxizing, but rather the moisture kicking off a checmical reaction when the pads and rotors are pressed together with the parking brake engaged. I assume the latter since these pads look like they are used on other Volvos as possible the rotors as well.

Yeah. I wonder if my car has different parts than yours. Would be fun to afford to take a few P8s completely apart down to see the variances.

 

[He Keith]

If I have different part it would be any pad/rotor part updates since production, but I am thinking anyone that gets the brakes wet and they are not hot enough to dry before parking will potentially have this issue if they park the car for several days when they are wet. I am also frustrated with the BS answers from Volvo, that they can't go organic because the car is too heavy? What is that? Then they need to find some ceramic pads. Also their insinuation that it is my fault as I am the only person that they have seen this happen to twice is rather insulting. The dealer has been great, but I think Volvo is just not concerned, they have a few issues and don't seem to care much. If I could find ceramic pads I may give them a try at some point, but by then the car will likely be in again at at the 30 day mark and I have made it clear to Volvo I will file lemon law on day 31. This car is too expensive to have it out of server 1 out of 6 days so far.

 

[Homer]

If I have different part it would be any pad/rotor part updates since production, but I am thinking anyone that gets the brakes wet and they are not hot enough to dry before parking will potentially have this issue if they park the car for several days when they are wet. I am also frustrated with the BS answers from Volvo, that they can't go organic because the car is too heavy? What is that? Then they need to find some ceramic pads. Also their insinuation that it is my fault as I am the only person that they have seen this happen to twice is rather insulting. The dealer has been great, but I think Volvo is just not concerned, they have a few issues and don't seem to care much. If I could find ceramic pads I may give them a try at some point, but by then the car will likely be in again at at the 30 day mark and I have made it clear to Volvo I will file lemon law on day 31. This car is too expensive to have it out of server 1 out of 6 days so far.

Do they give you back the replaced parts and/or show you the damaged pad/rotor.? A picture might be worth a thousand words regarding the cause of the problem.

 

[Vatorney3]

If I have different part it would be any pad/rotor part updates since production, but I am thinking anyone that gets the brakes wet and they are not hot enough to dry before parking will potentially have this issue if they park the car for several days when they are wet. I am also frustrated with the BS answers from Volvo, that they can't go organic because the car is too heavy? What is that? Then they need to find some ceramic pads. Also their insinuation that it is my fault as I am the only person that they have seen this happen to twice is rather insulting. The dealer has been great, but I think Volvo is just not concerned, they have a few issues and don't seem to care much. If I could find ceramic pads I may give them a try at some point, but by then the car will likely be in again at at the 30 day mark and I have made it clear to Volvo I will file lemon law on day 31. This car is too expensive to have it out of server 1 out of 6 days so far.

carparts.com and others have ceramic rear pads:

https://www.carparts.com/search?q=brake_pad_set&itemsperpage=15&refinements[location]=Rear&vehicle[submodel]=Recharge&vehicle[model]=XC40&vehicle[make]=Volvo&vehicle[year]=2021

 

[He Keith]

carparts.com and others have ceramic rear pads:

https://www.carparts.com/search?q=brake_pad_set&itemsperpage=15&refinements[location]=Rear&vehicle[submodel]=Recharge&vehicle[model]=XC40&vehicle[make]=Volvo&vehicle[year]=2021

Funny PowerStop told me they did not carry anything for this car. I gave them year, model and even Volvo p/n.

 

[He Keith]

Got the car back today. I really missed it, but darn IHU was hung up and would not connect with my phone and it would not respond to "hello Google" for some time then started beeping and such. We wen in store and when I came out it looked like AAOS had rebooted when we shut the car off, it was still a problem for the next 2-3 miles and I rebooted the IHU when I got into the garage, will see what tomorrow is like. Darn dealer did not install August update as requested.

 

[SeattleCat]

Ugh good luck.

 

[He Keith]

Dare I say what happened again today. After only sitting 13 hours

Brakes_20210925_Short.mpg

drive.google.com

This time no grinding as I don't think it sat long enough to seize enough am going to drive it a few days to see what happens before reaching back out to Volvo. Now whenever the car sits for a period I make my wife shoot video of the back wheels as I put it in reverse so I don't miss any issues.

 

[XC90_Dinosaur]

That is a good idea. Just get the camera next to the wheel. The ambient noice is little bit too much. Make another video and turn the camera to show your license plate.

 

[He Keith]

That is a good idea. Just get the camera next to the wheel. The ambient noice is little bit too much. Make another video and turn the camera to show your license plate.

Yeah I truly was not expecting it today, but figured the day I don't video will be the day it does it. The longer video whow it pull out of my garage, that is just a small snip.

 

[SeattleCat]

You sure you do not have raccoons/dogs/cats/possums secretly sneaking into the garage at night and peeing on your rear wheels?

It seems really odd that yours seizes over and over. When so many others rarely or never seize.

Of course a smart way to lemon out your car would be to wet the wheels at the rear over and over to help them with their seizing up problem but I am assuming that you are not doing that as you seem honorable so I am back to the car peeing raccoon army

Actually once one dog pees on your tire any dog going by Will want to leave it’s comment

A stupid thought. I wonder if there could be a potential difference between your car and the ground (faulty charger?) not huge but small. Would this not also accelerate the corrosion?

Final test. Flip a coin 100 times if it comes up the same every time maybe you are going through a weird probability skew

Not all of the above are dead serious

 

[He Keith]

I washed the car Friday afternoon. The car was used Thursday, sat in garage Friday. I pulled it out washed it and put it back in. I figured it would seize so had wife ready with camera. I get I can drive it afterwards to prevent the issue, but I have washed my cars this way for 30 years. Nothing in the manual says you can not wash it or have to drive it for 20 minutes after washing it. Someone else here had this happen after parking after it rained. Someone else on the forum here reached out to me direct with brake (around other things). Volvo refuses (and I understand why) to try any other pads. But I may see what I can work out with the dealer.

 

[SeattleCat]

Yeah I remember someone else having the same issue. You cannot be the only person who washed car at outs it away. Maybe most people drive it the next day.

 

[He Keith]

I have washed it and let it sit without issues, but it is a crap shoot. And driving may not always fix it, so where here said they were driving in the rain, parked over night and had it happen. They need a new pad formula pronto. According toe Powerstop, Akebono and ECB none make ceramic pads, and only ECB makes organic. Would prefer ceramic.

 

[He Keith]

One thing I would suggest people in the US do that have had the brake issue do, is to report it as saftey defect to NHTSA

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

Brake pad material breaking off ultimately compromises the brakes, either by being wedged in between the pads and rotors preventing the brakes to fully engage or by creating less pad surface to engage.

 

[SeattleCat]

I think the new software deploys the rear breaks softer … but you also have the software don’t you he Keith?

 

[He Keith]

I have the latest software. I don't think it has anything to do with how soft the brakes are deployed. You take wet pads/rotors and press them together and in a few hours you have a reaction that causes the brake material to oxidize together. The few times I have washed the car and it did not happen was either because I washed right after using the car (brakes likely warm/hot) or I drove it within a few hours of washing it. Unfortunately as winter approaches it will be likely that when I do wash it, I will pull it out, wash it and put it back in garage.

What was amusing to me was they did not notice my dash cam when they repaired it the last time and the tech and service manager were standing in front of the car and tech commented "look how clean the wheels are, is he washing it every 2 minutes"

Dah, you guys get the car right so clean because it usually fails after being washed, and excuse me if I want my $60K car looking good and kept in good condition.

I guess maybe Volvo needs to update the manual "This car is intended for people that do not drive in wet weather or that care about their car so washing and water are not advised to be used on or around the rear wheels."

 

[SeattleCat]

My wheels are shinny clean and oiled up. Margo is a pretty thing and likes to look her best. Of course I have not had your problems. Hilarious you caught them on cam …

You are right about metals being in contact and reacting especially with water (even more with salt water) present but there is also an effect of fission of the peaks of 2 metals when the my are pressed together which causes the little mountains (at a microscopic level) to fuse between the two metal surfaces. This is based on knowledge from my physics degree 30+ years ago so maybe it has changed and this is no longer true.

On a hey it ain’t just Volvo note the Independence class littoral combat ship also had aggressive corrosion issues due to different metals for those ships the comment would be why does my 704 million dollar ship have corrosion issues.

 

[XC90_Dinosaur]

They are called metallic break pads not because they are all metal. Metallic brake pads, sometimes referred to as semi-metallic brake pads, are made up of somewhere between 30%-70% metals, depending on the manufacturer. Those metals include iron, steel, copper, and other alloys.
They do not rust. It's the rust from the rotors