[Cuelaw57]

Herbert Diess, CEOof the VW Group, said in a recent interview, "And we have to accept that Tesla sets the new benchmarks [on] … the EV side," Diess added. "Not only technology wise, but also when it comes to productivity, speed … I think it's always good to have competition."

How does VC measure up to the de facto EV standard? Hard to see how it makes its goal of an all EV by 2030 without a major step up by its engineering teams, especially the software team. I doubt VC will ever produce cutting edge EV tech, but it has to be able to do the simple things like provide a decent phone app and push out OTA updates frequently.

 

[MMK]

Although Tesla has ~10 years to fine-tune its bugs and technology, one would assume that Volvo (and others) would have started reverse engineering a loooooOOoong time ago to make it even cheaper and better by the time it rolls out its first EV. And Volvo, as a car manufacturer, has a much longer resume than Tesla, one would assume that it could manufacture car with a closed eye which enables it to shift focus and investment on the tech side to support its very ambitious EV visions ! Instead......let's start with a stable app first.....and just maybe OTA for all the next 6 months.

 

[SeattleCat]

Tesla was happy to run at a loss for 18 years.

It is nice that some companies are happy and able to run at a loss for that long but alas others have to make a profit.

I am happy my 60k went to help fund VCs expansion into the market and I am glad they entered when they did as I really did not want to buy a Tesla (my issues).

Tesla is definitely number one for now. Looking at his vision of a truck I do wonder and look forward to the day when other companies can compete and replace them as number one.

 

[He Keith]

Hmm, IMO Tesla set the standard, but not sure they are the future standard. As was said, it is nice when you have the “new guy” advantage and investors watched them bleed money for years. Keep in mind the last few years the thing that kept them in the green was selling their fuel credits to other car makers. They still have serious QA issues and repair logistics issues as their focus has been innovation and selling you the car, not maintaining it.

To me the one to watch is Lucid. If they deliver they can unseat Tesla. They have a similar investors looking the other way as they bleed cash, but have the history of Tesla to teach them what to do and not to do.

I too wanted nothing to do with Tesla, can’t stand the minimalistic approach to controls (or lack thereof) and head unit, and their QA issues. I appreciate what Elon did to advance the market for EVs, but in a few years the competition will be there. The bigger long term issue will be charging in trips and the current issues with charging I. The road needs to be and seamless as pulling into a gas station for ICE cars. Fortunately for the next few year I assume the bulk of EV buyers are using their cars around town and charging at home almost exclusively.

 

[Greg S]

The problem with Lucid is they seem to be only high-end luxury models...at least Tesla has the family Model 3 “cheap” model. I think Rivian is the one to watch, but again their cheapest option is pretty pricey. Everyone wants trucks though and they seem to have cracked the EV truck with some neat features and it looks pretty good (headlights are a bit odd but getting used to that). I hope Rivian gets them to Australia soon! However they’ll probably be super-pricey when they hit here...given a RHD-converted Chevy, Dodge or Ford pick-up is over $100-150K here...maybe Rivian will have an advantage making them RHD in the factory instead of a RHD conversion in Australia.

 

[He Keith]

Keep in mind that Tesla only had the Model S for years and the Model 3 is fairly recent addition.

 

[Greg S]

Keep in mind that Tesla only had the Model S for years and the Model 3 is fairly recent addition.

Yep, right. I guess they start out with the higher-profit models then work their way down!

 

[DudeDad]

Keep in mind that Tesla only had the Model S for years and the Model 3 is fairly recent addition.

The 2011 Roadster was issued before the Model S. It was quite small and I remember that the seats were very thin…jokingly thin.

 

[BuzzyBud]

One aspect which may have drawn buyers to Tesla is the direct-to-consumer purchase model. I really like that approach and that was a huge factor in my decision to order a C40. (In my area most dealers have additional dealer markups which can add thousands to the cost.) Another factor in choosing a C40 over a Tesla model Y was the tax credit of $7,500.00. There are many more advantages to buying a Volvo over a Tesla, but those two could be high on many buyers lists.

 

[He Keith]

Too bad we still have to deal with the dealer finance people to pick up the car and their high pressure sales on all the add-on warranties.

 

[SeattleCat]

Tesla sets a standard.

Tesla to recall 475,000 cars in the US Tesla to recall 475,000 cars in the US

And

Tesla disables gaming while driving feature Tesla disables gaming while driving feature

Just saying Tesla despite making evs for a long time is still not perfect. Allowing drivers to game was quite special.

 

[jbcarioca]

As an owner of a Tesla Model S Plaid and a Volvo XC 40 EP8 I do have a perspective, one that changes as I learn more:
Volvo (and the rest of Geely, for that matter) still have ICE and EV on the same platform. The CMA was designed to be all things. That does mean there are quite a few compromises in the pure EV:
1. Far lower efficiency Tesla 18.8 kWh/110km Volvo 32.1 kWh/100km. How can the Volvo use >40% more energy when it is smaller and has vastly lower performance?
2. Design not attempting to reduce drag. Volvo COD .28 Tesla .203 That worsens the Volvo disadvantage as speed rise.
3. Volvo use of Google Maps makes navigation easier than it is for Tesla, plus a wider variety of apps possible throughGoogle.
4. If you like games, Tesla appears way ahead. I detest games so I personally find them irritating.
5. regular small niggely things in the Volvo due to software integration, mostly. IME none are very important. Tesla doesn't have them much anymore. I cannot say that about my first one in 2014. Hence Volvo is on a learning curve but they ARE learning.
6. Everything important on the Tesla can be done in my phone app, including the key. The Volvo old fashioned key must be carried. Thus no automatic unlocking and locking. Wherever I am in the world I can manage almost all Tesla functions. No chance in the Volvo. That is an important feature for me since I leave one or the other for weeks at a time. I can manage my callbox remotely dos the charging control still can be done on the Volvo remotely.

The subject of recalls and defects seems to me to be inconsequential in both cases. Ultra-fans make great noise about one or the other. I personally find them both OK but different. Tesla is easier because of OTA diagnosis, but my local Volvo dealer is excellent. OTA this morning I had to go to my Volvo dealer to diagnose a trunk opening problem. The same diagnosis at Tesla would have been OTA, so no visit. The Volvo diagnosis was made by reading the API of the Volvo so could easily have been online OTA. That is irritating.

Everything else between the two is a wash, given the inherent differences between the two vehicle forms.
I like them both. I will replace the Volvo with something much more advanced when ti becomes available. That may be another Volvo, maybe a Tesla, maybe something not yet sold. Anyway that is at least years away.

Right now, like it or not, Tesla is leagues ahead. Wait times, though are very, very long. So long as their innovation continues I expect them to grow. I do think the Geely empire is making amazing progress and taking Volvo public to help fund the transition was a Good Move. I have not yet bought shares but I am considering it. Full disclosure, as a long time TSLA investor I'm quite well aware that their progress is astounding. The market is goring so quickly that many can do well, but most will not. I absolutely do expect that as Northvolt comes online the next generation fo Volvos will be far better. Think they'll thrive despite the long Volvo history of ownership instability. Volvo has both determination, deep pockets and very competent engineers, including the superb Geely-based electrical engineers.

The previous paragraph is essential for me, since I am a lifelong early adopter with the scars and euphoria that comes with that habit. Just think about that next time somebody complains too much about the XC 40 P8. This is their first effort! In that context it is quite brilliant! When the CMA is replaced the next one will be vastly more efficient. Of that I am positive.

 

[MMK]

Very well said @jbcarioca "...This is their first effort! In that context it is quite brilliant!...." Tesla has set such high standards from the start which doesn't leave much learning curve for the rest. When a Consumer hears the term "EV", its commonly associated with the form, fit and function of a Tesla. Putting Tesla aside, the P8 shines like a rock star. Although the "scars" had been annoying at time, but everything in perspective, the P8 has definitely improved my quality of life ! So I'll take that any day Disclaimer: This includes successful 1.7 OTA, but not the 1.8 - Go figure (was advised by several Volvo customer service to take the car to Dealership to upload). But....unless the 1.8V has night and day difference, I'll wait it out .....

 

[Cuelaw57]

2. Design not attempting to reduce drag. Volvo COD .28 Tesla .203 That worsens the Volvo disadvantage as speed rise.

I like that my P8 has an SUV form factor, which makes it useful to haul things. TSLA does no offer a true SUV. MY and MX have rear cargo areas that are impacted by the swooping design for the low drag coefficient. My P8 also has more ground clearance than the MY, which I like. It makes getting in and out easier.

 

[SeattleCat]

I like that my P8 has an SUV form factor, which makes it useful to haul things. TSLA does no offer a true SUV. MY and MX have rear cargo areas that are impacted by the swooping design for the low drag coefficient. My P8 also has more ground clearance than the MY, which I like. It makes getting in and out easier.

I wanted another low to the ground car but spouse2 convinced me to get a suv and as she wanted a small compact one and then we decided we wanted an ev it had to be the P8 at the time.

That said I will not go back to a non easy to get into car. My knees back shoulders everything thanks me every time I get in the P8.

 

[houkura]

I wanted another low to the ground car but spouse2 convinced me to get a suv and as she wanted a small compact one and then we decided we wanted an ev it had to be the P8 at the time.

That said I will not go back to a non easy to get into car. My knees back shoulders everything thanks me every time I get in the P8.

This was a big point for me with the Volvo. I have two kids in car seats for at least a few more years. It's enough putting them in level with me standing upright-putting them in and having to bend down to do so would be a pain. This is just one of many reasons I chose the Volvo. Tesla was a close competitor when I was choosing but I couldn't get one for months so it fell right off my list.

 

[He Keith]

As an owner of a Tesla Model S Plaid and a Volvo XC 40 EP8 I do have a perspective, one that changes as I learn more:
Volvo (and the rest of Geely, for that matter) still have ICE and EV on the same platform. The CMA was designed to be all things. That does mean there are quite a few compromises in the pure EV:
1. Far lower efficiency Tesla 18.8 kWh/110km Volvo 32.1 kWh/100km. How can the Volvo use >40% more energy when it is smaller and has vastly lower performance?
2. Design not attempting to reduce drag. Volvo COD .28 Tesla .203 That worsens the Volvo disadvantage as speed rise.

That is what baffles me. I get the shape has some impact, but clearly there is some very inefficient items in the Volvo design. I have to believe the motor design has to be inefficient. COD is important, but at low speeds less so. When you look at the newer EVs, like Lucid and the incredible range they can get per kWh they clearly had a power budget and scrutinized every milliamp of power. It seems like Volvo did not put a lot of effort into the power budget. I will be curious if they resolve this in a pure EV platform or it will hurt them.

 

[Greg S]

As an owner of a Tesla Model S Plaid and a Volvo XC 40 EP8 I do have a perspective, one that changes as I learn more:
Volvo (and the rest of Geely, for that matter) still have ICE and EV on the same platform. The CMA was designed to be all things. That does mean there are quite a few compromises in the pure EV:
1. Far lower efficiency Tesla 18.8 kWh/110km Volvo 32.1 kWh/100km. How can the Volvo use >40% more energy when it is smaller and has vastly lower performance?
2. Design not attempting to reduce drag. Volvo COD .28 Tesla .203 That worsens the Volvo disadvantage as speed rise.
3. Volvo use of Google Maps makes navigation easier than it is for Tesla, plus a wider variety of apps possible throughGoogle.
4. If you like games, Tesla appears way ahead. I detest games so I personally find them irritating.
5. regular small niggely things in the Volvo due to software integration, mostly. IME none are very important. Tesla doesn't have them much anymore. I cannot say that about my first one in 2014. Hence Volvo is on a learning curve but they ARE learning.
6. Everything important on the Tesla can be done in my phone app, including the key. The Volvo old fashioned key must be carried. Thus no automatic unlocking and locking. Wherever I am in the world I can manage almost all Tesla functions. No chance in the Volvo. That is an important feature for me since I leave one or the other for weeks at a time. I can manage my callbox remotely dos the charging control still can be done on the Volvo remotely.

The subject of recalls and defects seems to me to be inconsequential in both cases. Ultra-fans make great noise about one or the other. I personally find them both OK but different. Tesla is easier because of OTA diagnosis, but my local Volvo dealer is excellent. OTA this morning I had to go to my Volvo dealer to diagnose a trunk opening problem. The same diagnosis at Tesla would have been OTA, so no visit. The Volvo diagnosis was made by reading the API of the Volvo so could easily have been online OTA. That is irritating.

Everything else between the two is a wash, given the inherent differences between the two vehicle forms.
I like them both. I will replace the Volvo with something much more advanced when ti becomes available. That may be another Volvo, maybe a Tesla, maybe something not yet sold. Anyway that is at least years away.

Right now, like it or not, Tesla is leagues ahead. Wait times, though are very, very long. So long as their innovation continues I expect them to grow. I do think the Geely empire is making amazing progress and taking Volvo public to help fund the transition was a Good Move. I have not yet bought shares but I am considering it. Full disclosure, as a long time TSLA investor I'm quite well aware that their progress is astounding. The market is goring so quickly that many can do well, but most will not. I absolutely do expect that as Northvolt comes online the next generation fo Volvos will be far better. Think they'll thrive despite the long Volvo history of ownership instability. Volvo has both determination, deep pockets and very competent engineers, including the superb Geely-based electrical engineers.

The previous paragraph is essential for me, since I am a lifelong early adopter with the scars and euphoria that comes with that habit. Just think about that next time somebody complains too much about the XC 40 P8. This is their first effort! In that context it is quite brilliant! When the CMA is replaced the next one will be vastly more efficient. Of that I am positive.

I agree with a lot you say there for sure. I was surprised to see you say 32.1 kWh/100 km in the Volvo. We’ve put over 3000 km on ours and we are averaging 22 kWh/100 km. That’s a lot better than what you stated, but still not great compared to many of the more streamlined EVs out there. I can’t wait to see the new XC90 replacement and Polestar 3. I certainly hope they use less electricity!

 

[He Keith]

My 21 so far I would say we are averaging 34kWh/100 miles of 21-22kWh/100km with about 3500 miles so far. The 22 is a tad higher mostly becasue we go it in late November and it has seen more colder days, but even it in about 500 miles seems to be around 35-37kWh/100 miles or 22-23kWh/100km. And some of the difference between the 21 and 22 is she rarely uses Range Optimizer and I try to use it all the time. And I wish it would remember that setting with the profile as every time you change profiles it turns off range optimizer.

Personally I feel the and the Polestar are a test bed EV for Volvo and they needed to get something out. We are all participating in their testing and evolution int he EV development cycle. Look at Norway (I believe) this past year it was like 55% of all vehicles sold were EVs. Europe is leading in the EV market so having a seat at that table is important, even if is not optimal. Also in Europe people travel less distances so the range becomes less of a factor.

• The United States (9,826,630 km2 / 3,794,080 sq mi) is larger than the European Union (4,233,262 km2 / 1,634,472 sq mi).

Some perspective we Americans often forget.

 

[Volvo2022C40]

The vast amount of Tesla statements are taken out of context. Tesla has been funded by a billionaire that has been operating in a niche segment operating at a loss for years. The quality is horrible as is the reliability and dealer network ( or lack of). Elon Musk has done what Uber (industry disruption) has accomplished by circumventing laws that have been in place for years. No dealer network, no reasonable part availability, selling features that are not available (autopilot $10k, not available). Tesla has no gas legacy vehicle or trucks to contend with, they don't have a brick and mortar locations, they skirt a lot of stuff. Tesla reliability is stuff that used to happen in the 1970's, bumpers falling off, average failure of 3 out of 4 door handles, etc. There was no consistent money in ev's until fuel prices consistently stayed high and battery tech improved. Every top tier auto manufacturer tears down their competition or contracts out for some other entity to do so (Monroe), so don't think Tesla is magical. With that being said, I would not purchase a Tesla of any kind. I have seen the insides of these vehicles and there are very few places that can repair them properly or reasonably in my opinion. Tesla leverages body shops to act as a repair network in most cases and that is a nightmare for most people. A lot of people don't think what happens when there is an issue from part failure, maintenance, or accidents. Last but not least... I have a large position on Tesla stock because it's stock increases in value for all of the the wrong reasons! It is a cash cow and makes no sense! This reminds me of all of the Apple fanboys and fangirls when Steve Jobs was passing out the kool-aid about their hot garbage (I have Apple stock also). This car company will meet someone's needs and it is possible their ownership experience will be positive (not likely).