[Greg S]

Why is it that the range is never enough. 700km **** that a big range. Personally I never sit in a car for any more than two hours so stopping for a 15min top up Sh&t and a coffee is not a problem. The only thing that needs to catch up is the infrastructure. Many governments are now actively working on this along with private companies as they see opportunity. A 7ookm battery is a very heavy one and does not make for an efficient EV. Research I seen the other day indicates that there is not enough battery capacity to get anywhere near the targets set by governments accessible now or five years down the track and the best way to solve it is for smaller battery range cars that are efficient but charge really fast so it will be a 5 min stop to top up another 150km and you are on your way again. That way more EVs can get on the road. This requires a change in thinking and yet again more infrastructure.

But every Australian wants to be able to drive across the Nullarbor non-stop on the spur of the moment!

 

[Astus]

But every Australian wants to be able to drive across the Nullarbor non-stop on the spur of the moment!

True that fantasy about buying a big diesel and driving across the desert to look a continual red sand for a couple of days pack extra water and survival gear. Or I can just take a plane and do it in comfort, just not jetstar because they will cancel

 

[Greg S]

True that fantasy about buying a big diesel and driving across the desert to look a continual red sand for a couple of days pack extra water and survival gear. Or I can just take a plane and do it in comfort, just not jetstar because they will cancel

Oh, and I won't mention the lack of a full-size spare as that would be sacrilege!

 

[Homer]

The biggest surprise the EV drivers are going to get is that as EV use grows the infrastructure has to as well and that costs a lot. Just in California the energy requirements needed to support the goal of EV usage by 2035 will require the equivalent of 10 new nuclear power plants. The off peak rates will go away as everyone will need to recharge in these hours that will effectively negate off peak hours. This can't be made up by solar and wind as there is not enough land available for either to satisfy this demand. It is when the government runs out of other people's money to offset the costs of EV and infrastructure that the SH*T is going to hit the fan and EV owners are going to get a really big surprise with skyrocketing costs. This has nothing to do with power outages, blackouts and forced brown outs and natural disasters that will cause issues with EV's. Just my opinion.
When a technology can stand on its own without having to artificially make it work by forcing another technology out of existence by over-regulation and cost increases along with adding public money to support the new technology with tax and rebate incentives which in large part are made with tax money taken out of everyone's pocket. Then the technology has matured and will be successful. Until this point is reached the EV market is just a burden on every tax paying American. I will be the first person in line to buy an EV when the technology is practical for my purposes. There are situations where EV's work fine, my son has one and he has a very large solar array and owns a farm where he has room for it. Not many people have this capability.

Just a reminder of technology that would not have existed if not for taxpayer supported government funding. Technology innovation is not a burden.

Google Search
GPS
Supercomputers
Artificial intelligence
ARPANET , foundation for the internet
Closed captioning
Smartphones
Shale
Seismic imaging
LED
MRI
Human Genome project
HIV/AIDS health care

And others that are not noted.

My concerns is that we may be getting ahead of our skis.

The infrastructure to support long distance travel EV does not exist while we push EV purchases. For the present, it is for the short haul local traveler.

 

[Stephen Cerruti]

The infrastructure to support long distance travel EV does not exist

Correction: does not exist everywhere. You can reach nearly any place on the west coast of the United States in an EV and most without much concern over where to charge. I have travelled the length of California on the 5 and 101. I visited family in Central Oregon and camped in the mountains southeast of Bend. I have spent time on the Oregon coast and travelled through every wine region in the state of California. I have been to Vegas and Phoenix. I have met people who have travelled cross country from Michigan (a polestar driven by an Electrify America tech) and from the East Coast. I have charged alongside people who are long distance traveling in Leafs.

There is room for improvement (I'm looking at you Oregon Coast) but to claim it doesn't exist and that EVs are only for short hauls is false.

While it isn't going to be true for everyone, we save significant amount of money commuting in an EV (hundreds of dollars per month) and our road trip fuel costs tend to range between 1/4 and 1/2 of what we would spend in an equivalent ICE vehicle. And this is before we factor in savings on maintenance and account for the comfort of an EV.

 

[dan_a_w]

Chiming in again to agree with Stephen's comments and to add that while charging stations are relatively prevalent along the major west coast travel routes (shade thrown at southern Oregon in addition to the coast -- having had to face the Walmart in Grants Pass on several occassions), a big difference on our most recent trip was that at most of the places we stopped to charge (Alabany, Sutherlin, and Grants Pass in OR and Yreka, Anderson, and Willows in CA) at least 1/2 and sometimes 3/4 of the chargers were out of service. Fortunately we never had to wait long to access a working unit, but it does seems like a flaw if tech support for the necessary infrastructure cannot keep pace with demand.

 

[Homer]

Correction: does not exist everywhere. Y

I stand corrected for over generalizing the issue. You are right. There are areas of the country with adequate, if not great infrastructure that allows for seamless charging capabilities.

However, living in the Midwest, and traveling from Cincinnati to Columbus, there is little if any available charging between those locals. There are charging station in the big cities, but almost nothing in between. For EV to replace petrol for energy, there will need to be development of rapid charging and costs that are accessible in the rural areas of the country. Traveling from Indiana to Chicago puts one in the open corn belt. There are few if any charging stations.

Planning the trip in advance to predict the need for recharging is something that should not be necessary. EV charging needs to be as common place as the gas station in order to supplant the popularity of the ICE. The lack of infrastructure development is a primary reason for range anxiety among the EV owners.

I love driving my EV. I firmly believe in its adoption. I would also like the government to support a national electrification system.

 

[XC90_Dinosaur]

Why is it that the range is never enough. 700km **** that a big range. Personally, I never sit in a car for any more than two hours so stopping for a 15min top up Sh&t and a coffee is not a problem. The only thing that needs to catch up is the infrastructure. Many governments are now actively working on this along with private companies as they see opportunity. A 7ookm battery is a very heavy one and does not make for an efficient EV. Research I seen the other day indicates that there is not enough battery capacity to get anywhere near the targets set by governments accessible now or five years down the track and the best way to solve it is for smaller battery range cars that are efficient but charge really fast so it will be a 5 min stop to top up another 150km and you are on your way again. That way more EVs can get on the road. This requires a change in thinking and yet again more infrastructure.

I am comparing ICE vs EV, and, in my opinion, long range EV is very appealing. You are absolutely right, and it is fair point of view and I agree with you. Perhaps standard range (200km or 300km) among certain class of vehicles will make sense and with current technology seems to be efficient way to address the problem.
However, I am bloody client which for 120k dollars wants minimum 700km range. Really sorry to disappoint. I do understand your point.
I am waiting for the solid-state batteries. That will change the game a little, and I really hope for some kind of breakthrough that will open the door for cheaper batteries. Whatever it is there will be no change in the next 5 years or more.

 

[Kerminator]

Adding my two cents...

Either EV gets some insane range (700km, in winter 350km) which requires lots of resources and is expensive. Or the charging speed goes up from current 120kW to 200+kW range so in any weather condition a coffee stop adds up nice amount of juice. Also the amount of operators(more competition) and more locations is needed to keep the charging network going. Sadly in current subsidy methods just give money for expanding the network but not much is given for keeping those chargers running.

In Finland the network has grown a lot and due to good competition between multiple operators the price is reasonable.Some one created the following picture about charging networks growth in Finland. The change has been rapid and due that change we decided to buy our XC40. Without the network growth we would still use some ICE car.

What comes to cost.... Even if running EV is cheaper than comparable ICE(petrol or diesel) car the buying price kills it... Wife jokingly said: "Taking a loan to save money" when we bought our car.

 

[BvH]

Just to add my 2 cents to the riddle:

I've been posting monthly cost reviews (will add December soon) here ... Financial costs of running the XC40 for September

It gives an overview of savings in fuel/energy costs our household has now (a C40 and Toyota Yaris hybrid) compared to previously (V40 D3 and Toyota Yaris hybrid). We are a family of 4, I work from home and drive the kids around and my partner uses the C40 for her work (which includes lots of driving in the region here). Just to give you a general idea.

With those kms, kWhs, and € you can sub in any to get an idea of what other situations might cost ... e.g. if we only did HPC charging at €0,55 for those kWh would we still save money compared to the previous situation etc.?

My personal conclusion ... I'm okay with paying higher costs at HPCs (EVgo, EA, Ionity, Zunder etc.) for those long trips because in general, our savings add up to way more than what those longer trips cost extra (maybe 6-12 per year in our case).
As for infrastructure ... around where we live it is poor ... but I really care about how it is starting at 200km away (say 2 hrs driving) from our home, and it is average ... do I wish we had more options available to us? yes. Do I wish it was better around us? Yes, it would help others get here easier.
In general, I see the bottleneck for EV adoption the general charging infrastructure, not only the providers, but here the government really has to streamline applications processes etc. I see a lot of charging locations in construction ... for aeons (well, months really) ... in my region. All held back by paperwork. I'd like to get to a point where there are HPCs every 20km or so. This means I can choose where to stop (optionality). At the moment I have to stop at certain locations because the distance to the next is too far.
Also, a lot of the free charging (usually up to 22kW) available is almost always taken up by PHEVs ... so I'd be happy if those providers would start charging money for charging, hopefully, that would get rid of PHEVs blocking up slower chargers at shopping malls etc. and make it easier for EVs to get top-ups (for low costs, say €0,10-0,20/kWh) at those locations.

Oef ... sorry ... this got a bit longer than intended ...

 

[scottnatte123]

I have recently checked the cost of EVGo electricity charges. The average is now about 0.50 per kilowatt. This is an average based on peak, off peak, and utilization charges. It may be higher or lower in some areas, but is is a number that seems to incorporate many of the variances by region and time.

Assuming that in the winter, there is a range of 180 miles in the XC40. And, assuming a 90% charge for that range, or about 70 kilowatts.

To recharge the car, when on the road would cost $35.00.

A car getting 30 MPG would need 6 gallons of gas at a current average of about $4.00. This would cost $24.00.

Granted, home charging is cheaper. But, if electric is the future and the infrastructure development is trending towards this type or charge costs, where is the purported financial benefit?

Anyone planning frequent trips that are outside the limited range would be forced to accept these costs.

I am not debating the environmental, ecological or geopolitical benefits of electric....just the oft quoted economic positives that don't seem to add up.

no benefit for EVs when gasoline prices are low similar to pre2020. Except for CA, it’s not economical to purchase a higher priced EV. It’s really a status symbol unless prices come down and outside charging stations provide lower costs. EVGo is one of the worst that’s way GM chose that company for freebies

 

[Pepe Lucho]

I have recently checked the cost of EVGo electricity charges. The average is now about 0.50 per kilowatt. This is an average based on peak, off peak, and utilization charges. It may be higher or lower in some areas, but is is a number that seems to incorporate many of the variances by region and time.

Assuming that in the winter, there is a range of 180 miles in the XC40. And, assuming a 90% charge for that range, or about 70 kilowatts.

To recharge the car, when on the road would cost $35.00.

A car getting 30 MPG would need 6 gallons of gas at a current average of about $4.00. This would cost $24.00.

Granted, home charging is cheaper. But, if electric is the future and the infrastructure development is trending towards this type or charge costs, where is the purported financial benefit?

Anyone planning frequent trips that are outside the limited range would be forced to accept these costs.

I am not debating the environmental, ecological or geopolitical benefits of electric....just the oft quoted economic positives that don't seem to add up.

If you have an EV, you should get a home charger, period. My electricity costs about 11¢ per kw, so mile per mile, I end up paying 1/3 of what it would costs for gasoline. Think about it, if you could install a gas pump at your house for $1000 and be able to pump your own gas at home for 1/3 the price of a public pump, why wouldn't you ? Well, that's the magic of at home charging. And if you add some solar panels to your house, then voila, it's free !

 

[Enterprisee54]

The biggest surprise the EV drivers are going to get is that as EV use grows the infrastructure has to as well and that costs a lot. Just in California the energy requirements needed to support the goal of EV usage by 2035 will require the equivalent of 10 new nuclear power plants. The off peak rates will go away as everyone will need to recharge in these hours that will effectively negate off peak hours. This can't be made up by solar and wind as there is not enough land available for either to satisfy this demand. It is when the government runs out of other people's money to offset the costs of EV and infrastructure that the SH*T is going to hit the fan and EV owners are going to get a really big surprise with skyrocketing costs. This has nothing to do with power outages, blackouts and forced brown outs and natural disasters that will cause issues with EV's. Just my opinion.
When a technology can stand on its own without having to artificially make it work by forcing another technology out of existence by over-regulation and cost increases along with adding public money to support the new technology with tax and rebate incentives which in large part are made with tax money taken out of everyone's pocket. Then the technology has matured and will be successful. Until this point is reached the EV market is just a burden on every tax paying American. I will be the first person in line to buy an EV when the technology is practical for my purposes. There are situations where EV's work fine, my son has one and he has a very large solar array and owns a farm where he has room for it. Not many people have this capability.

For those who have the disposable income to run an EV at the moment they recoup the costs throughout the ownership, they’re it stuck with them as you’re trying to suggest.
when it’s cheaper to run something else they’ll change to that.
some would like to justify their choices but there’s the thing most wouldn’t bother questioning why someone else has made a different choice, all depends on circumstances as if it maters to you 💁

 

[stevenfuzz]

Make big oil great again! Seriously wtf?

 

[f1geek]

TCO for BEVs is cheaper than fossil gobblers for just about any application, when comparing like for like product. This is why commercial fleets are going BEV as well as individuals. Fossil fuel designed to be burned is one of the most heavily subsided commodities in the world, so the pittance that is currently being directed at BEV infrastructure is a drop in the bucket compared to the ongoing fossil subsidy, and don't even try to compare it to a century worth of fossil subsidization.

 

[kgall005]

If you have an EV, you should get a home charger, period. My electricity costs about 11¢ per kw, so mile per mile, I end up paying 1/3 of what it would costs for gasoline. Think about it, if you could install a gas pump at your house for $1000 and be able to pump your own gas at home for 1/3 the price of a public pump, why wouldn't you ? Well, that's the magic of at home charging. And if you add some solar panels to your house, then voila, it's free !

All good points until you go to the solar panels.. I looked at a 15kw solar system, and i could probably pay for gas the rest of my life for what they wanted for the solar system, now granted that’s was with battery storage system too.. But the price of solar is out of control.. just the storage unit was 18k… Hopefully those prices come down..