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We know the EV charging infrastructure should be expanded over the next two years. One approach to minimize a backlog of EVs waiting to charge might be to increase the charge station capability from 50kW or 150kW to 350kW. If the public utilities will support the power needs, this approach might help.

My question is whether the Volvo EVs can accommodate increased charge speed above 150kW with a software change or would it require hardware modifications as well. Thoughts?
 

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It is not possible to charge the Volvo faster than 150kW. Most of the EVs that charge above 150kw run 800 volt systems versus the 400 volt system Volvo uses.

Rivian does something interesting for 800 volt charging. They have a patent to switch the two halves of their battery from serial to parallel to support 800 volt charging even though the system is a 400 volt one
 

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It is not possible to charge the Volvo faster than 150kW. Most of the EVs that charge above 150kw run 800 volt systems versus the 400 volt system Volvo uses.

Rivian does something interesting for 800 volt charging. They have a patent to switch the two halves of their battery from serial to parallel to support 800 volt charging even though the system is a 400 volt one
What Stephen said.

Even worse past 80 there is no advantage at being at a station above 50kW. By the end you in the 30s or lower.
 

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It will be a hardware issue and the programming for the battery, the bit about the Riven is interesting though, thats outside the box thinking :) I would be concerned about doubling the amount of power pumping through a system designed for 150kw and the resultant heat.
 

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my feeling is the opposite, more 50kw chargers in more locations, especially more remote locations. The load on infrastructure is significant especially for the higher speed chargers. Also given the charging curve 50kw is not that significantly slower for us.
 

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It will be a hardware issue and the programming for the battery, the bit about the Riven is interesting though, thats outside the box thinking :) I would be concerned about doubling the amount of power pumping through a system designed for 150kw and the resultant heat.
Alas with the soc effect on charge rate I would imagine the 800volt just gets you to the craptastic paean of the curve a little faster.

The dream I suppose is a battery that has 400 mile range at 70% tans 800volt. At that point it would be as fast as gas.
 

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Alas with the soc effect on charge rate I would imagine the 800volt just gets you to the craptastic paean of the curve a little faster.
Actually this has not quite been the case with most cars. For example the Porsche Taycan, one of the first 800V vehicles, can pull 150 kW charge up to around 72% SOC. And based on the battery size and efficiency, it is actually faster to add in more miles in a Taycan than any other car, or so was the case until recently. The newly updated 250kW capable Model S refresh may be better now; but until recently, the Taycan was the best road warrior (and I believe held the EV cross country USA record).
 

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My question is whether the Volvo EVs can accommodate increased charge speed above 150kW with a software change or would it require hardware modifications as well. Thoughts?
This poses some interesting questions, as others have replied above.

Ultimately the answer can be laid out quite simply: if you are going cross country (long distance) and your goal is to get from charger A to B to C to D … then yes, the max kW is going to matter most. And in that case, whatever the max the car can pull is beneficial. Most vehicles seem to max out around 150kW based on 400V meaning they cannot take in more than approx 385A. Most of the 150kW towers that are operating at 400V can push out maybe 400A max, which is still only 160kW anyhow. So we’re not talking much.

(side note: those limitations might be the grid, but may also be the car; I’d expect that you’ll find 400V cars like ours wont be able to upgrade to handle more power, But its a bit of chicken and egg) (what i mean by that is there is already now an 800V standard that exists, adopted by most, as the way to achieve 350 kW max)

Note that Porsche’s claimed 270kW max right now, and Hyundai’s IONIQ5 232kW max right now, still fall short of the 350kW that the Electrify America towers (and IONITY) can spit out at them, so the cars are, for the moment, the limiting factor. It will be interesting to see what vehicle actually grabs the full 800V max of 350kW (estimated 438A).

But I digress….

What some others touched on here is really what needs perhaps a shift in how we approach charging “on the road” as it compares to fuel in a petrol car. I’ve had conversations with friends who cannot wrap their head around the idea of not going to 100% full “tank” like in a gas car. The concept of road trips where you only charge to 70% full to achieve 10% SOC next charger to get max kW is hard for many to get. But even more so— the idea that, as others noted, more 50kW chargers make sense, is actually smart. A great example is my Mini EV — it only does 50kW max, but it sustains that across the entire SOC. More so, I use that car for mostly around town driving, but on a half dozen occasions have needed A brief charge (15min at 50kW) to get home. In those instances, a 50kW charger located at a fast food joint, shopping mall, etc would benefit me (more than any L2 would help). I’d argue the same for the XC40 — where having a 50kW charger at a movie theater for example is more than enough. You’d only need 1.5 hours to fully charge there anyhow — and that is roughly how long you’d be at the movies.

My PERSONAL take it …
1- we need level 2 chargers only at places people spend 4+ hours typically. Your work place, your home, your apartment complex, or public parking garages near work/home/city centers that people tend to part 4+ hours at a time

2- we need DC fast charger (slow/50kW) at places people spend 1-2 hours typically (shopping malls, movie theaters, tourist districts, etc) that people might be able to garnish a meaningful charge (where L2 wont be useful, but DC slow might)

3- we need DC fast chargers (fast/150kW And beyond) only on the major freeway arteries where people travel long distances. Tesla’s original approach of major intersections (ex: where a major interstate N/S and E/W intersect) makes great sense. Just outside of major cities along major freeways, etc.

Then down the road, as battery density changes, at some point where perhaps you really can “refill” your battery in < 5 mins, only then would having “gas station” Type refuel matter. And, even then — where 99% of people can recharge at home 99% of the time, the concept of “needing” public refuel stations will Never be as necessary/dense as petrol stations are today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This poses some interesting questions, as others have replied above.

Ultimately the answer can be laid out quite simply: if you are going cross country (long distance) and your goal is to get from charger A to B to C to D … then yes, the max kW is going to matter most. And in that case, whatever the max the car can pull is beneficial. Most vehicles seem to max out around 150kW based on 400V meaning they cannot take in more than approx 385A. Most of the 150kW towers that are operating at 400V can push out maybe 400A max, which is still only 160kW anyhow. So we’re not talking much.

(side note: those limitations might be the grid, but may also be the car; I’d expect that you’ll find 400V cars like ours wont be able to upgrade to handle more power, But its a bit of chicken and egg) (what i mean by that is there is already now an 800V standard that exists, adopted by most, as the way to achieve 350 kW max)

Note that Porsche’s claimed 270kW max right now, and Hyundai’s IONIQ5 232kW max right now, still fall short of the 350kW that the Electrify America towers (and IONITY) can spit out at them, so the cars are, for the moment, the limiting factor. It will be interesting to see what vehicle actually grabs the full 800V max of 350kW (estimated 438A).

But I digress….

What some others touched on here is really what needs perhaps a shift in how we approach charging “on the road” as it compares to fuel in a petrol car. I’ve had conversations with friends who cannot wrap their head around the idea of not going to 100% full “tank” like in a gas car. The concept of road trips where you only charge to 70% full to achieve 10% SOC next charger to get max kW is hard for many to get. But even more so— the idea that, as others noted, more 50kW chargers make sense, is actually smart. A great example is my Mini EV — it only does 50kW max, but it sustains that across the entire SOC. More so, I use that car for mostly around town driving, but on a half dozen occasions have needed A brief charge (15min at 50kW) to get home. In those instances, a 50kW charger located at a fast food joint, shopping mall, etc would benefit me (more than any L2 would help). I’d argue the same for the XC40 — where having a 50kW charger at a movie theater for example is more than enough. You’d only need 1.5 hours to fully charge there anyhow — and that is roughly how long you’d be at the movies.

My PERSONAL take it …
1- we need level 2 chargers only at places people spend 4+ hours typically. Your work place, your home, your apartment complex, or public parking garages near work/home/city centers that people tend to part 4+ hours at a time

2- we need DC fast charger (slow/50kW) at places people spend 1-2 hours typically (shopping malls, movie theaters, tourist districts, etc) that people might be able to garnish a meaningful charge (where L2 wont be useful, but DC slow might)

3- we need DC fast chargers (fast/150kW And beyond) only on the major freeway arteries where people travel long distances. Tesla’s original approach of major intersections (ex: where a major interstate N/S and E/W intersect) makes great sense. Just outside of major cities along major freeways, etc.

Then down the road, as battery density changes, at some point where perhaps you really can “refill” your battery in < 5 mins, only then would having “gas station” Type refuel matter. And, even then — where 99% of people can recharge at home 99% of the time, the concept of “needing” public refuel stations will Never be as necessary/dense as petrol stations are today.
Yes, the concept of “Hip Hopping” your way from charger to charger on long trips makes sense but may be counter intuitive to many EV owner at first. One of the Norway based YouTubers, Kris Rifa, uses this approach as he completes long trips. At first I was puzzled by his charging style, then the light came on! Ha!
When you expand that concept to all trips, you can better understand the logic behind charger placement and power delivery.
Seems to me, the people who worry about range anxiety and lack of charger placement are the people who do not yet own an EV. Ha!
 

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Yes, the concept of “Hip Hopping” your way from charger to charger on long trips makes sense but may be counter intuitive to many EV owner at first. One of the Norway based YouTubers, Kris Rifa, uses this approach as he completes long trips. At first I was puzzled by his charging style, then the light came on! Ha!
When you expand that concept to all trips, you can better understand the logic behind charger placement and power delivery.
Seems to me, the people who worry about range anxiety and lack of charger placement are the people who do not yet own an EV. Ha!
I have of course a XC40 Recharge, but still suffer a bit of range anxiety, but its much better than when I first got the car. Around town its no problem and I have a Chargepoint EVSE at home, but on longer trips the anxiety creeps in to my mind, so to get around this I don't let my SOC get below 15% and try to find alternative chargers close by if my preferred charging station (mostly EA) is not working. I just can't see how people let their SOC get down to 3 or 4%.....too much risk of being stranded and needing a tow.
 

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Who lets there charge down to 3 or 4 percent? At these levels there is diminished acceleration and things like heating goes off line.

Range anxiety really does fade. When I got the P8 i would never of believed I would have an anxiety free 1200 mile ev trip and yet we did in the 118 heat of summer.

I think traveling with an ev means more and longer stops. It will be nice when these stops can be somewhere other than a Walmart car park or a deserted large car park.

There is a potential market for separating people from their money whilst they charge be it casinos. Restraints. Shopping. Museums etc. hopefully things will grow that way.
 

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This poses some interesting questions, as others have replied above.

Ultimately the answer can be laid out quite simply: if you are going cross country (long distance) and your goal is to get from charger A to B to C to D … then yes, the max kW is going to matter most. And in that case, whatever the max the car can pull is beneficial. Most vehicles seem to max out around 150kW based on 400V meaning they cannot take in more than approx 385A. Most of the 150kW towers that are operating at 400V can push out maybe 400A max, which is still only 160kW anyhow. So we’re not talking much.

(side note: those limitations might be the grid, but may also be the car; I’d expect that you’ll find 400V cars like ours wont be able to upgrade to handle more power, But its a bit of chicken and egg) (what i mean by that is there is already now an 800V standard that exists, adopted by most, as the way to achieve 350 kW max)

Note that Porsche’s claimed 270kW max right now, and Hyundai’s IONIQ5 232kW max right now, still fall short of the 350kW that the Electrify America towers (and IONITY) can spit out at them, so the cars are, for the moment, the limiting factor. It will be interesting to see what vehicle actually grabs the full 800V max of 350kW (estimated 438A).

But I digress….

What some others touched on here is really what needs perhaps a shift in how we approach charging “on the road” as it compares to fuel in a petrol car. I’ve had conversations with friends who cannot wrap their head around the idea of not going to 100% full “tank” like in a gas car. The concept of road trips where you only charge to 70% full to achieve 10% SOC next charger to get max kW is hard for many to get. But even more so— the idea that, as others noted, more 50kW chargers make sense, is actually smart. A great example is my Mini EV — it only does 50kW max, but it sustains that across the entire SOC. More so, I use that car for mostly around town driving, but on a half dozen occasions have needed A brief charge (15min at 50kW) to get home. In those instances, a 50kW charger located at a fast food joint, shopping mall, etc would benefit me (more than any L2 would help). I’d argue the same for the XC40 — where having a 50kW charger at a movie theater for example is more than enough. You’d only need 1.5 hours to fully charge there anyhow — and that is roughly how long you’d be at the movies.

My PERSONAL take it …
1- we need level 2 chargers only at places people spend 4+ hours typically. Your work place, your home, your apartment complex, or public parking garages near work/home/city centers that people tend to part 4+ hours at a time

2- we need DC fast charger (slow/50kW) at places people spend 1-2 hours typically (shopping malls, movie theaters, tourist districts, etc) that people might be able to garnish a meaningful charge (where L2 wont be useful, but DC slow might)

3- we need DC fast chargers (fast/150kW And beyond) only on the major freeway arteries where people travel long distances. Tesla’s original approach of major intersections (ex: where a major interstate N/S and E/W intersect) makes great sense. Just outside of major cities along major freeways, etc.

Then down the road, as battery density changes, at some point where perhaps you really can “refill” your battery in < 5 mins, only then would having “gas station” Type refuel matter. And, even then — where 99% of people can recharge at home 99% of the time, the concept of “needing” public refuel stations will Never be as necessary/dense as petrol stations are today.
nice point of view, I think we get lost in the romantics of trying to fill up at the same speed as an ice car but forget that a pit stop there is often more then just the filling time.
 

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Tbh long stops are probably healthy anyway! I have a bad habit of trying to make my destination as fast as possible. 30 minute stops to stretch and use the facilities is probably better for me anyway
I 100% agree. Long and short stops are good. I used to just drive for up to 15 hours. Quick gas stops inky when wanting to get somewhere. This whole stopping and taking a breath approach is better for body and sanity. Just wish those breaths could be taken somewhere …. Nicer? More interesting? Or with toilets :p
 

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Who lets there charge down to 3 or 4 percent? At these levels there is diminished acceleration and things like heating goes off line.

Range anxiety really does fade. When I got the P8 i would never of believed I would have an anxiety free 1200 mile ev trip and yet we did in the 118 heat of summer.

I think traveling with an ev means more and longer stops. It will be nice when these stops can be somewhere other than a Walmart car park or a deserted large car park.

There is a potential market for separating people from their money whilst they charge be it casinos. Restraints. Shopping. Museums etc. hopefully things will grow that way.
Looking at the Scandinavian youtube videos this seems to be the set up for a lot of their charging stations, often at gas stations but food etc available. The Casino is an interesting idea, though it will be like the shopping centres, only L2 / 11kwh so you have to stay longer!! :)
 

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Tbh long stops are probably healthy anyway! I have a bad habit of trying to make my destination as fast as possible. 30 minute stops to stretch and use the facilities is probably better for me anyway
There was some study done years ago about how you should stretch every 2 hours. I remember older Audi vehicles I had would bling "2:00" on the dash after driven for two hours straight, to remind you to get out and stretch. Something to do with body fatigue etc-- so yeah, more stops is really never a bad thing :)
 

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One of the (many) factors my wife and I considered when taking the EV plunge, is that we are no longer capable of doing 6-7 hour stints without stopping. As the years creep on the legs start to ache and we found ourselves needing to get out and move around even if we didn't need gas. Now we have an EV and plan longer trips to fast charging stations and look forward to the 30 minute breaks from the road. It's a change of mindset, but actually far more comfortable in the end.

One thing I do miss form the ICE days is using Costco as our go-to service station. Cheapest gas, clean toilets, super cheap ready to go food, and if you park well away from the entrance, easy parking. If Costco would bring in fastish charging we would be set. I don't however see them agreeing with me unless we can be lured inside to shop.
 

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One of the (many) factors my wife and I considered when taking the EV plunge, is that we are no longer capable of doing 6-7 hour stints without stopping. As the years creep on the legs start to ache and we found ourselves needing to get out and move around even if we didn't need gas. Now we have an EV and plan longer trips to fast charging stations and look forward to the 30 minute breaks from the road. It's a change of mindset, but actually far more comfortable in the end.

One thing I do miss form the ICE days is using Costco as our go-to service station. Cheapest gas, clean toilets, super cheap ready to go food, and if you park well away from the entrance, easy parking. If Costco would bring in fastish charging we would be set. I don't however see them agreeing with me unless we can be lured inside to shop.
I keep hoping I will see Costco chargers ….

I totally agree about knees and things. I have pads on the arm rests and pads on the door and inner edge for my knees. Without the pads most cars nail the sore spots on my knees perfectly :)
 
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