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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rather than hijack the efficiency thread I thought I would start a new one on the stupidity of public charging costs.

California has banned per minute billing for Level 2 on new chargers starting this year and on DCFC starting 2023. It's interesting to look at the state of DCFC in my area. Ban on per minute billing

One park and ride lot has a variable rate pricing that is set directly by the power company (+ 6% for ChargePoint).
12am - 6am $0.20033/kWh
6am - 4pm $0.30523/kWh
4pm - 9pm $0.31396/kWh
9pm - 12am $0.30523/kWh

The EVgo stations are still charging per minute ($0.32) Electrify America is using kWh billing at $0.43/$0.31 guest/member. ChargePoint passes on prices set by the owner (see above example) but advertises in 15 minute cost even when sold per kWh.

My favorite DCFC is free but has 30 minute sessions (in case people are waiting.)

I was talking with my wife and she says she doesn't care, she just wants to fill up her car and go. But this leads to all sorts of problems including eliminating the ability to compare prices and thus competition.

The per minute costs are particularly loathsome because your own car can charge at different rates depending on state of charge. A simple, "Should I stop now and charge or drive 5 minutes to the next charger?" becomes impossible to answer. This only benefits the EV charging network operators as they are counting on building brand loyalty right now versus competing on price.

What do I propose?

Every state should adopt a kWh based measurement.
States should regulate fees be posted 15 days in advance to a public database so that they are accessible in third party trip planning tools. Such a database should also have best effort availability status (available/in-use/maintenance.)
Peak rates should be allowed to match grid needs.
Idle fees should be encouraged.
Member discounts should not be prohibited.
Non-charging vehicles in charging spots should be subject to ticket and tow.
States should adopt an infrastructure tax on public charging.*

Key: Any federal infrastructure for charging should include state adoption of a uniform plan.

*This is super thorny. How do provide equivalent taxing from home or private charging? How do you level it against ICE taxes?

Level 2 is a whole different ball game.

Volta exists as a free charging network that is advertiser supported. Meanwhile the Blink and ChargePoint units in my office and the parking garage where I park are a whopping $0.59/kWh. Nearly double the cost of DCFC. One other datapoint, the winery where I had lunch yesterday, charged $1.50/hour ($2/hour on weekends). That worked out to be $0.26/kWh from about 73% to close to 90%.


How does this all stack up against ICE? Pretty good actually if you live in a state with high gasoline costs:
CityHighway
T5 Momentum2230MPG
P8 396468Wh/M
Miles Driven100
Gas Price (G)CityHighwayElec Price (kWh)CityHighway
$2.70$12.27$9.00LA$0.08$3.17$3.74
$2.90$13.18$9.67$0.14$5.54$6.55
$3.10$14.09$10.33$0.20$7.92$9.36
$3.30$15.00$11.00$0.26$10.30$12.17
$3.50$15.91$11.67$0.32$12.67$14.98EA DCFC
$3.70$16.82$12.33$0.38$15.05$17.78
$3.90$17.73$13.00$0.44$17.42$20.59
$4.10$18.64$13.67CA$0.50$19.80$23.40
$0.56$22.18$26.21
$0.62$24.55$29.02Blink L2
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I think this chart makes more sense. It was what I was trying to do. It shows cost to drive the Momentum 100 miles and the equivalent per kWh cost to travel the 100 miles in the P8 for the same price. I used today's average prices for US States.

CityHighway
T5 Momentum2230MPG
P8396468Wh/M
Miles Driven100
Gas Price (G)CitykWh equivHighwaykWh =
$2.70$12.27$0.31$9.00$0.26LA
$2.90$13.18$0.33$9.67$0.28
$3.10$14.09$0.36$10.33$0.30
$3.30$15.00$0.38$11.00$0.32
$3.50$15.91$0.40$11.67$0.34
$3.70$16.82$0.42$12.33$0.36
$3.90$17.73$0.45$13.00$0.38
$4.10$18.64$0.47$13.67$0.40CA
 

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2021 XC40 P8 - Bursting Blue
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I think this chart makes more sense. It was what I was trying to do. It shows cost to drive the Momentum 100 miles and the equivalent per kWh cost to travel the 100 miles in the P8 for the same price. I used today's average prices for US States.
Ehrm... don't we need an actual cost based on the kwh rate? Pretty sure it takes more than $0.26-0.47 to drive 100 miles...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Ehrm... don't we need an actual cost based on the kwh rate? Pretty sure it takes more than $0.26-0.47 to drive 100 miles...
This says that driving the P8 at $0.26/kWh is the same as driving the T5 Momentum at $2.70/gallon. So, find your gas price on the left then move right for your kWh price.

An example, in California at $4.10/gallon and primarily driving on the highway costs the same as charging at a public charger at $0.47/kWh. At home at $0.09/kWh super off peak I am spending 5 times less (47/9) the cost of driving the equivalent ICE buggy. (Edit: changed saving to spending..)
 

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Very interesting. Thank you for calculating all that. One work site has EVConnect chargers setup to $0.25/kWh, which means I'm saving a relative whopping 1 cent/kWh compared to gas if I choose to use that bank of chargers.
 

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Here in OR, there are 2 DCFC locations set up by the local Power company and Shell and they offer a flat fee of $5 per charge.
 
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