[ICDP_EV]

Thankyou for your concern.

Nah, Im curious what the issue ultimately was. I always said it was the motors, and like to keep up with the threads and see.

FWIW, never checked out my Exs page. I knew what her issue was, so no curiosity, there, lol!

I'm glad you did not take it as an insult. I know some cars are lemons, or cause problems. I swore off all things Nissan after having a terrible experience in a new 2014 Qashqai. It was back to the dealership 13 times in less than a year and only 1 time was an issue acknowledged and fixed. I drove it for a further 2 months with broken AC, constntly beeping reverse sensors and other rattles and annoyances. Yet almost everyone else on the Qashqai forums was convinced I was just a moan.

After 13 months, I sold it back to the dealership for a massive loss despite the AC not working and it having a number of other issues. I never once looked at the forums, or how much my ex car was sold for, I moved on because I just didn't care.

 

[Irishamerican]

Can admin please close this topic and move on from here?

 

[mikejones100]

Can admin please close this topic and move on from here?

I don't see any downside in keeping it open. Those interested can view it, those not can ignore it.

 

[Macachia]

I understand the concept of having a lemon. We had a Mazda cx30 and started showing rotor problems weeks after getting it. The car needed new rotors and pads every few months (around 2000 kilometers). The dealer never acknowledged it for two whole years. It spend days at them getting repaired and researched.
All of took was one (new) dedicated manager that escalated it and we got it sorted in a matter of two weeks. They wanted the car back as they couldn’t get it fixed to standards.

Sometimes a lousy employee or dealer will much a brand’s reputation

 

[LDIR_16384]

I understand the concept of having a lemon

There's a difference between a lemon car that stubbornly refuses to allow a single mysterious fault to be fixed or is so badly constructed that it spends it's life in a repair shop for multiple faults, and a car that exhibits a batch-wide quality control failure that the dealers intentionally lie about and the manufacturer refuses to address.

Volvo have have passed the cost of their fault onto owners/subscribers as some dealers claim these cars are acceptable and safe, but who'd to pay full price for a car that cruises like an electric toothbrush? Then there are some dealers that have acknowledged the issue but the silence from Volvo is indicative of a problem they just want to sweep under the 2nd hand market's rug.

The small number of drivers posting that they are receiving new drive trains are telling of limited improvements. After 6+ months of technical reports, Volvo still don't have a clue why their CMA cars wobble on the motorway. If they do they are keeping very quiet about fixing it.

The issue here is not just a broken car, or multiple broken cars, it's also Volvo brand's response to making good.

Edit: For clarity, I'm not suggesting all CMA cars vibrate on the motorway, just that those reported on this forum are having a very difficult time getting the issue resolved. Volvo (the manufacturer, not the independent dealerships) have not tried to deny the issue on my cars, but also have not advised on next steps.

 

[ICDP_EV]

Your problem is this obviously does not happen to all Volvo C40s. Hence why most here see this as a number of people got lemons. A bad batch is obviously possible, but that still falls under the admittedly broad definition of “a lemon”.

Does it happen? Of course
Has it happened to multiple owners? Unfortunately yes
Is it widespread? Obviously not (no matter how much you or JWG claim otherwise)

I don’t even have my C40 yet, but my test drive showed no such issues. Or I would never have bought one. The way your post describes the issue as very widespread, I should have noticed it and never have been on this forum to read, let alone reply to your post. I will of course be doing a check for this and other issues.

 

[Macachia]

There's a difference between a lemon car that stubbornly refuses to allow a single mysterious fault to be fixed or is so badly constructed that it spends it's life in a repair shop for multiple faults, and a car that exhibits a batch-wide quality control failure that the dealers intentionally lie about and the manufacturer refuses to address.

Volvo have have passed the cost of their fault onto owners/subscribers as some dealers claim these cars are acceptable and safe, but who'd to pay full price for a car that cruises like an electric toothbrush? Then there are some dealers that have acknowledged the issue but the silence from Volvo is indicative of a problem they just want to sweep under the 2nd hand market's rug.

The small number of drivers posting that they are receiving new drive trains are telling of limited improvements. After 6+ months of technical reports, Volvo still don't have a clue why their CMA cars wobble on the motorway. If they do they are keeping very quiet about fixing it.

The issue here is not just a broken car, or multiple broken cars, it's also Volvo brand's response to making good.

Possibly why there’s a shift to RWD and AWD using their propriety motors

 

[LDIR_16384]

Possibly why there’s a shift to RWD and AWD using their propriety motors

Could be, albeit that would be a quick turnaround as I believe MY 22 was not suffering from this. Let's hope it removes the problem regardless of the intentions.

I have a hunch that Volvo were desperate for parts to keep the production line running. It's one thing to downgrade pixel headlights when the supply dries up, but what do you do when all you have is some wobbly motors and/or drive shafts ? If they are not unsafe then chuck them in or the conveyor belts stop, deal with the fallout later.

They appear to have lost one customer over this issue forever but given some of the responses on this (and the dedicated) thread there are plenty of others who don't want it to be true so doubt it will damage their brand long term. Tough luck on the suckers who've wasted money on this fault.

 

[JWG]

Your problem is this obviously does not happen to all Volvo C40s. Hence why most here see this as a number of people got lemons. A bad batch is obviously possible, but that still falls under the admittedly broad definition of “a lemon”.

Does it happen? Of course
Has it happened to multiple owners? Unfortunately yes
Is it widespread? Obviously not (no matter how much you or JWG claim otherwise)

I don’t even have my C40 yet, but my test drive showed no such issues. Or I would never have bought one. The way your post describes the issue as very widespread, I should have noticed it and never have been on this forum to read, let alone reply to your post. I will of course be doing a check for this and other issues.

It's wide spread enough that the dealer acknowledged their other C40 on the lot did it, as well. I also see a TON of posts about it since mine was purchased mid/late last year. Then, it was minimal, now? We have people all over the world talking about axles and motors and clicking and all this jazz. This is not a lemon. This is a QA/QC issue or other endemic problem for this model.

 

[ICDP_EV]

It's wide spread enough that the dealer acknowledged their other C40 on the lot did it, as well. I also see a TON of posts about it since mine was purchased mid/late last year. Then, it was minimal, now? We have people all over the world talking about axles and motors and clicking and all this jazz. This is not a lemon. This is a QA/QC issue or other endemic problem for this model.

We could debate all day and not agree. I call it a lemon, not a widespread issue because I only see a handful of reports of such issues. At worst it fall under “bad batch”. Probably by the same people on multiple forums.

 

[LDIR_16384]

A bad batch is obviously possible, but that still falls under the admittedly broad definition of “a lemon”.

Only if it doesn't get fixed by attempts to fix it. Manufacturers recall /update vehicles with defects based on batch number all the time, those are not considered lemons (there was brake recall fix discussed on this forum recently that only impacted a subset of cars, albeit s/w versions rather than h/w parts).

Also depends on who you are disagreeing with. In the UK I remember the "That's Life" lemon discussions, whereas this forum references various US states' lemon laws which have varying but specific thresholds of downtime and repair attempt count on single/multiple issue.

Is it widespread? Obviously not (no matter how much you or JWG claim otherwise)

The way your post describes the issue as very widespread,

Nope, that's just your interpretation of the posts and your definition of "widespread" and of "batch". I wrote "batch wide" and quality control intentionally because I know from experience that this impacts more than one CMA car built around the same time. However, my MY 22 had none of the different styles of vibrations my MY23s had, so clearly not every XC40 twin motor made. Anecdotally on the forum, some other owners in similar spec CMA models do get vibrations and many more don't. So "batch wide quality control" meaning at least some cars in a batch don't meet acceptable thresholds.

I've no idea how large a batch run on twin motor is or how many of those batches run each MY, but it's enough for multiple unique posters have described two types of vibrations. They live across the globe (according to their avatar) but that's irrelevant, their cars were all built in the same factory in Belgium. I don't remember any posts from the China built owners, but that doesn't prove much until someone makes that claim.

I will of course be doing a check for this and other issues.

Fingers crossed yours doesn't vibrate when you receive it (you'll know the very first time you join a motorway) because if it does you're stuck with it for the duration of your lease. Volvo say it's not a safety defect so if they don't want to fix it they won't. Test driving a demo doesn't make you immune. I'm swapping mine for another MY 23 in April, let's see if I'm third time lucky...

Or I would never have bought one.

That's the point...

 

[ICDP_EV]

It's wide spread enough that the dealer acknowledged their other C40 on the lot did it, as well. I also see a TON of posts about it since mine was purchased mid/late last year. Then, it was minimal, now? We have people all over the world talking about axles and motors and clicking and all this jazz. This is not a lemon. This is a QA/QC issue or other endemic problem for this model.

We could debate all day and not agree. I call it a lemon, not a widespread issue because I only see a handful of reports of such issues. At worst it falls under “bad batch”.

 

[LDIR_16384]

Hence why most here see this as a number of people got lemons. A bad batch is obviously possible, but that still falls under the admittedly broad definition of “a lemon”.

Only if it doesn't get fixed by attempts to fix it. Manufacturers recall /update vehicles with defects based on batch number all the time, those are not considered lemons (there was brake recall fix discussed on this forum recently that only impacted a subset of cars, albeit s/w versions rather than h/w parts).

To be fair, I have been describing only the scenario where the dealer claims the vibrations on a car are a feature.

However, other dealers have looked at these same cars but made no attempt to fix other than rotating tyres/balancing wheels which is a fairly insignificant attempt to fix a problem. One dealer refused to even do this for me, but another did and are now waiting on Volvo for a next step, but there's been almost no downtime, just an irritating commute.

At least one dealer has changed the drive shafts with no success. I guess this one is approaching being a lemon. I'm not sure what number of defective cars you think need to pass this stage for lemon-ness not to apply? I suspect the only way out is for Volvo to find and to apply the fix. And as you say if it's a relatively small number, they won't bother.

In my case it's still not clear if we've got past "can't fix/won't fix" as the dealers aren't consistent and Volvo aren't communicating. I'm hoping they are well coordinated and waiting on one or two drive shaft replacements on cars with similar symptoms, but who knows, from my position they just seem to be ignoring the issue, lemon or not.

 

[ICDP_EV]

The very definition of a lemon in car parlance, is a car with significant defects that deviate from normal quality standards. The fact it does not happen to all similar cars, renders your cars "lemons". Here in the UK they are also referred to as "Friday afternoon cars", in that they were not built to a high standard.

Every review I have seen and every range test I watched for a C40 or XC40 (ICE and EV), showed no such issues observed. In fact I think I have only seen one youtuber remark on some vibration in his XC40 test. Though I obviously have ot seen them all.

I could be here all day listing the times a dealership lied to me, "that is within normal parameters". That in itself is not proof it is rife. To me this seems to affect a small percentage that is well down in the single digits. You have both been unlucky, unfortunate but not indicative of a wider issue, or Volvo cover up.

 

[ICDP_EV]

I think this is pertinent here. This is a single motor winter range test at 130kph. The guy mentions driving and steering at these speeds right around the 5m 44s mark. This is a theme I saw during all my real world research and by real world, I mean actual tests like this one. I obvioulsy did a lot of research and took a test drive before deciding the C40 was worth going for. Not some stupid Carwow test to see how far you can shove a stick into a vent.

This guy gives real world test results in real world conditions.

To summarise:

• Noise levels totally fine (road, wind and motor noise)
• Steering is overall very stable and eay to steer.

 

[LDIR_16384]

The very definition of a lemon in car parlance, is a car with significant defects that deviate from normal quality standards. The fact it does not happen to all similar cars, renders your cars "lemons". Here in the UK they are also referred to as "Friday afternoon cars", in that they were not built to a high standard.

Fair enough, seems I've been using the narrower view of lemon laws/consumer protection, given the US context of this thread and my situation, but I see your point here.

I could be here all day listing the times a dealership lied to me, "that is within normal parameters". That in itself is not proof it is rife. To me this seems to affect a small percentage that is well down in the single digits. You have both been unlucky, unfortunate but not indicative of a wider issue, or Volvo cover up.

I've listed the number of CMA cars I've experienced showing vibrations (3), and noted that other posters have observed the vibrations, it seems a bit of an exaggeration that I'm claiming it's rife.

The point about the dealer fobbing me off was more about consumer protection, how can lemon laws kick in if the dealer refuses to even agree there is a fault?

• for whatever reason Volvo are not fixing the vibrations on my car, not even communicating about the technical report the dealer has filed. Some better customer service would be appreciated.
• If there is a common issue between the cars with vibrations, then that's a good thing, more chance of a fix for the unlucky, unfortunate drivers.

Those are two separate issues, conflating them doesn't indicate claim of a global cover up. I am guilty of being impatient for a resolution though, and the lack of engagement is frustrating. I did choose some words above poorly though (rugs do cover things up):

but the silence from Volvo is indicative of a problem they just want to sweep under the 2nd hand market's rug

this was meant to indicate that the 2nd hand market will suck up the costs without Volvo having to even engage, rather than them actively shredding documents, so fair point again.

I obvioulsy did a lot of research and took a test drive before deciding the C40 was worth going for

Good for you. I enjoyed driving a vibration-less MY 22 XC40 for a year then two faulty MY 23 cars came my way.

I've only arrived at this forum because I saw other owners with similar symptoms and wanted to exchange notes in an attempt to help decide what to do next about my subscription. I'm not here to try to put other buyers off, XC40/C40 are great cars when the don't have defects, I just want one that works again and to escape the crack I've fallen down in Volvo customer service.

 

[LDIR_16384]

The way your post describes the issue as very widespread, I should have noticed it and never have been on this forum to read, let alone reply to your post

I've added a note to clarify this post, as it was written with the context of my situation in mind. It was not my intention to suggest that all demonstrators exhibit vibrations, to insult anyone's choice of brand, or due diligence skills. It was just to highlight that I'm frustrated with how the dealers and Volvo are handling an issue that they know financially impacts me and at least some other owners.

I was replying to Macachia's post alone, not associating your Qashqai post until now, but on re-reading see how my initial response had continued the discussion.

I'm trying to keep my posts about the vibrations to relevant threads, as I'm conscious that they are not popular, in the hope that uninterested users can easily skip. I am conscious though that they do crop up on the firmware update threads from time to time when "drive train improvements" are mentioned.

 

[ICDP_EV]

These threads serve a genuinely useful purpose. I find them interesting and useful posts taken in context of this thread. I have always felt that car forums should not be echo chambers, where all negative discussion is shut down.

What I wanted to correct was the IMHO flawed concept that this was a widespread issue and that Volvo dealerships were part of some large cover up.

 

[LDIR_16384]

What I wanted to correct was the IMHO flawed concept that this was a widespread issue and that Volvo dealerships were part of some large cover up.

I haven't seen any evidence that the (UK) dealerships are collaborating with Volvo UK on avoiding resolving the vibrations. I should be clearer that I'm treating "dealer"/"service centre" and Volvo/manufacturer as different entities as they independently find ways to avoid resolving the problem, whilst simultaneously acknowledging the vibrations exist.

 

[JWG]

Already dropped my trade in to just under $50k.