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Dead as a doornail!!!

56K views 275 replies 56 participants last post by  Motodisiac 
#1 ·
Well, this was a bit of a shock!

Our XC40 recharge is now sitting in the driveway, 100% dead and refusing to charge.

We have been having what I thought were minor issues- loss of LTE, loss of control of charging speed and limits. On Monday night we drove the car and parked in the driveway. We decided not to plug in because we had over 80% charge.

This morning I sat in the driver’s seat, and nothing turned on. No climate, no infotainment, no lights, nothing. Fob would not activate door locks. I plugged into our our L1 charging cable and got zero response. The charging light to the left of the connector on the car is not illuminated. The LED ring on the charging cable is lit white to show that it is plugged in, but not blinking as it should be if the vehicle is charging.

We have had the vehicle for just over a month. Volvo roadside assistance is en route. This is truly the nightmare scenario that technophobes who hate electric cars fear the most!!
 
#4 ·
Did not try a jump start- I figure it’s heading to the dealer regardless, since I want the underlying problem fixed!

I’m not actually sure how to access the 12v, much less whether jump starts are recommended/safe. And shouldn’t the 12v recharge automatically as long as the main battery is charged? I wouldn’t think the main would discharge from 80% in 36 hours, regardless of the state of the 12v.
 
#5 ·
I had the same issue a little over a week ago. I later learned that both 12V and big battery somehow were completely drained. Was showing 55% battery on the dash right before a power steering failure notice popped up and then it turned into a brick. I did jump start 12V battery and vehicle came back on but wouldn't accept charge from my Chargepoint ("charging error").

Towed to dealer and spent all last week there. They couldn't give an explanation of what happened except they think it was "a software issue". Got the latest software and the issue has not recurred as of yet.
 
#6 ·
Tow truck arrived quickly, and technician first tried connecting a jump starter across the 12v battery (which I figured out how to access with a little help from the internet). After a little while, the instrument panel began to light up, and eventually the infotainment screen came on as well. We got a stream of various error messages, and battery level showed 0%. Couldn’t do much of anything useful- couldn’t put it in gear, and couldn’t charge (charge light by the connector turned red, instrument panel showed “error- reconnect.” Tech eventually dragged it onto the truck by brute force using a winch, and maneuvering the truck bed to turn the front wheels to steer. Rear axle remained locked- not a pleasant sight to watch the tires dragging across the truck bed!

Hopefully we will hear something from the dealer in a day or two. I will let you know how it turns out!

I would imagine this sets us up for our $1000 in free accessories per the customer service bulletin!
 
#8 ·
Randall, did you happen to abort a charge before reaching full capacity at any point in the near term prior to your issue?

FWIW, I did a few days before I had my similar issue (was set at 90% charge maximum and I cut it off at 84%). I first started having LTE issues almost immediately and then the larger issue happened a couple days later, but before I attempted another charge.
 
#9 ·
Randall, did you happen to abort a charge before reaching full capacity at any point in the near term prior to your issue?

FWIW, I did a few days before I had my similar issue (was set at 90% charge maximum and I cut it off at 84%). I first started having LTE issues almost immediately and then the larger issue happened a couple days later, but before I attempted another charge.
Is your Car ok now ? Charging as supposed too?
Now I'm almost "scared" to kill it pre-maturely !
 
#10 ·
It's fine now, after spending all last week at the dealer. Again, they couldn't tell me what happened, only that it was likely a software issue, and it hasn't recurred. The LTE issues that preceded the battery dying were bizarre- resetting infotainment wouldn't work and neither did resetting the modem.
 
#11 ·
The unsettling portion isn't so much of the mere fact its 1st generation, but much, much MORE unsettling part is the lack of to zero knowledge or know-how at Dealer level. Granted they didn't design the Car or Systems but all Dealers with permits to sell certain brands SHOULD be well versed of every Brand/Model that rolls out of their lots. Otherwise, permits shouldn't be issued to begin with.
 
#12 ·
Interesting... I think I very likely did interrupt charging, given the issues I was having with charge limits described in this recent thread. I was unable to set the charge limits below 100%, so I suppose I've been "interrupting" the charging quite frequently. However, I would say I did this often even before my issues arose. Has someone suggested that one shouldn't "interrupt" charging? It feels like pretty normal behavior to come home, plug in the car, and unplug it whenever you need to use it... or to park at a charging station, plug in, and then unplug and go on your way once your errand is complete, even if charge limits haven't been reached. If this seemingly routine behavior can trigger catastrophic battery failure, I am going to need to seriously reconsider whether life with an electric vehicle makes sense for me!
 
#13 ·
I think we all need compensation for participating in Volvo's EV beta test. I get that Polestar you would be expecting this more just like early Tesla, but the Volvo name needs to stand for something. I get those of us on the forums are usually a minority of owners, but the issues showing up hear, from brake/axle issues, dead cars, software that is not stable or complete is very concerning. Any new Volvo customer (like me) that goes through tis will swear off the brand (I have) going forward. They customer service is nice to a point then it is "see the dealer" when the dealers are mostly clueless about this car. I regret buying vs. lease as at least I would start the 36 month clock before the pain is over.
 
#16 ·
I wonder if Audi E-Tron or Mach-E have their fair share of it -- what you'd mentioned above are not "little things" rather potential disastrous outcomes (...shutting down on highway with zero power, steering shutting down, no speed gauge, brakes/axle issues, battery draining to zero overnight....). ANY mechanical issues are NOT ok whether it's 1st generation or not.
 
#17 ·
We are all true pioneers. Besides the XC40 we own a 2015 BMW i3 Rex. That car got towed twice in the first year. The BMW dealer had to call the engineers in Germany for help. Good news Our i3 is trouble free since than.

Most of us know more about our car than the people at the dealer. Actually my sales person went to this forum to help me fixing the missing Google map in the main dash.
 
#18 ·
I have interrupted charging 20 times? 40? Maybe more especially during my plug it in test rate disconnect and try another phase.
Never had these problems though.
That is a lot of energy to dump in a night …

If you had plugged it in I would of wondered if the charging system was messed up somehow and drained it but it was not.

Even sitting there playing with the ac on full it should k no proof drained 80 in a night. Makes me think that there is a short or something …

So sorry this happened to you.

Alas this does happen and has always happened. Cars have a lot of moving parts and cars just go wrong and fail. Is it frustrating. **** yes. Should they look after us nicely when it happens of course but when a new ice car dies we do not look at the whole of the line or do we think **** that was unlucky. Here though each P8 represents all P8s.

Realistically can you release a mass produced car that has no problems for anybody for say the first month? Especially during chip shortages?

That said I would be poed if it happened to mine. The rear wheels not releasing sounds like a design problem. The thought of your car getting dragged across the ground was upsetting :(

A question to ask is did this hurt your battery? Should they give you a feee extended battery waranetee?

Good luck
 
#19 · (Edited)
When hauling an electrical vehicle, it shall either be lifted off from the ground or towed up onto a recovery vehicle’s platform.
Activating towing modeTowing mode is used when the vehicle has to roll freely in order to pull it up onto a recovery vehicle’s platform, for example.1.Press in the center display.2.Press Car status.3.Select Service.4.Press Activate Tow Mode.5.Follow the instructions in the screen.> The vehicle is now in towing mode and rolls freely.

Obviously you require power to activate towing mode,,,, this is the big problem if vehicle dead. Where are we suppose to get equipment to lift car on the tow truck in the middle of nowhere?
 
#20 ·
When hauling an electrical vehicle, it shall either be lifted off from the ground or towed up onto a recovery vehicle’s platform.
Activating towing modeTowing mode is used when the vehicle has to roll freely in order to pull it up onto a recovery vehicle’s platform, for example.1.Press in the center display.2.Press Car status.3.Select Service.4.Press Activate Tow Mode.5.Follow the instructions in the screen.> The vehicle is now in towing mode and rolls freely.

Obviously you require power to activate towing mode,,,, this is the big problem. Where are we suppose to get equipment to lift car on the tow truck in the middle of nowhere?
Wait…theres a towing mode ?? Never knew that !
 
#21 ·
This happened to me as well. Car was sitting for about a week, left at ~80% charge. Went out to check it and it was totally dead. Volvo roadside assist sent a tow truck to take it off to the dealer and the dealership wanted me to try to jump it to get it into tow mode. It was no problem for me to take the panels off to get access to the battery but it seems like a lot to ask of most people. Tow driver tried to jump it but it didn't seem to work so it was dragged up onto the flatbed. Luckily the tow driver had some plastic sliders he hammered under the wheels to help slide it up onto the back of the truck.

966


Dealership said the ECM (Engine Control Module?) failed and they are replacing it. No idea what caused it though...
 
#25 ·
This happened to me as well. Car was sitting for about a week, left at ~80% charge. Went out to check it and it was totally dead.
Do you remember if you locked the car the night before (mirrors fold inward)? I thought I remember that someone early on had a similar issue and it was thought to be the car never went into deep sleep and drained the 12v battery. (I could be wrong, but my suspicion is that 12v charging only occurs either during deep sleep or while driving)
 
#22 ·
Ugh- now I feel stupid that I didn’t activate “tow mode.” At the time I was frustrated that I couldn’t access the owner’s manual, since it was in digital form in the infotainment system instead of on paper in the glove box! I forgot that I could access it through the Volvo Cars app on my phone… and a quick search for “towing” brings up the info I needed. When the tow driver jumped the 12v, the infotainment screen powered on, and I might have been able to access the tow mode if I had thought of it.

Of course, the operator for Volvo roadside assistance probably should have been trained to mention this when we told her we had an XC40 Recharge in need of a tow. Instead, she asked if we were able to move the gear selector knob to neutral…

At any rate, the vehicle is at the dealer now. They will attempt to charge it and then diagnose the problem.

Thanks to all for your sympathy and your ideas. I will let you all know what I hear.
 
#23 ·
Try to forgive yourself for not putting it in tow mode. For all we know it might if triggered a self destruct. …

“Tow mode aka self destruct activated. You have 5 minutes to a safe distance. Pleasemake sure you fill in the customer survey being sent to your registered email. Have a nice day. You now have 4 minutes 30 seconds to reach a safe distance …”

I have now left my car due to driver side issues 2 times for a period of about a week each. When getting back in the charge was the same as when I left it both times.

Yay for me being lucky or sadness for you two being unlucky.

Let us know what they did / found abs good luck.
 
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#24 ·
Try to forgive yourself for not putting it in tow mode. For all we know it might if triggered a self destruct. …

“Tow mode aka self destruct activated. You have 5 minutes to a safe distance. Pleasemake sure you fill in the customer survey being sent to your registered email. Have a nice day. You now have 4 minutes 30 seconds to reach a safe distance …”

I have now left my car due to driver side issues 2 times for a period of about a week each. When getting back in the charge was the same as when I left it both times.

Yay for me being lucky or sadness for you two being unlucky.

Let us know what they did / found abs good luck.
For all you know, once "Tow Mode" activated, you won't even get to jumpstart the 12V as in TOTAL shut-down ! Who Knows!
On the other hand, I supposed once in "Tow Mode", and assuming the 12V battery can jumpstart, then it's the gear is put on "N" to allow rolling to flatbed. I didn't want how it was done with mine when it was towed from my work place due to brake/rotor issues. Hmmmm..... The tow guy was searching for the START button.... Lesson learn..
1) Ask if Tow has handled the Recharge before
2) If there's power on: Make sure to activate the Tow Mode before they drag it
3) If not, have them jump it then activate the Tow Mode

Tsk....tsk....tsk...
 
#27 ·
To uphold my presumption (right or wrong), I think the 12v battery should last several days when the screen is off, but not deep sleeping). So that seems normal that you haven't had a problem. @Bushikatagi mentioned that his car was sitting about a week.
 
#30 ·
You cannot create or destroy energy you can only change its form.

We change most of the batteries stored energy to movement and heat when driving.
Without the energy sink of lugging out big heavy beauty to high speed where on earth does 80-90% of energy go in a night?

Thats 60 to 67.5 kWh of power dumped without causing motion . . .heat being the obvious path of energy dispassion thats a lot of energy to dump in a few hours. Anyone have a setup to leave their P8 under thermal camera vision every night just in case we can catch this phenom happening? If I did not presently live in a condo I would set that up :) be fascinating to see if it goes through some odd heating or cooling cycle during the night.

Any electrical engineers around that understand how much can you loose by faulty grounding without causing heat build up? My back ground is physics computing and medical and alas the grounding of power is not something i know well enough to speculate on.

This all also begs the question . . .if you can loose 90% of your power in a few hours whilst it is sitting there can you loose that much while driving?

Very interested in finding out what is it they replaced? Was the battery actually drained or was it just reporting it was drained?
 
#33 ·
That is an interesting question about heat dissipation! My hypothesis is actually the reverse of mpepper’s- that the car was incorrectly reporting it’s state of charge and was not actually charged at 80% when we left it on Monday night. As reported in another thread, we were experiencing puzzling issues with charging (the greyed-out current settings and unresponsive charge limit settings that others have reported, along with a slow, 2kW charge from a 6+ kW ChargePoint station) during the week or so prior to shutdown.

Our car was NOT locked/shut down during the 36 hours or so when it discharged.

I’m a little worried that we won’t get much useful information from the dealer. Yesterday they were able to charge the 12v battery, which in turn allowed them to charge the main battery. Their plan was to take it for an extended test drive yesterday, recharge, and let it sit overnight. They will apply the new software update. To my knowledge, they have found no hardware issues.

I am quite anxious about taking back the car without any root cause of the problem having been diagnosed or corrected. If anyone has any thoughts about follow-up questions to ask or procedures to insist on, I would love to hear your suggestions! I think someone mentioned replacement of an ECM… do you know if the part was tested and found to be faulty, or was it a traditional service department “guess and check” where they just tried replacing a part that might theoretically have been to blame?

Thanks again for the ideas and support!
 
#34 ·
While not a electrical engineer, I am a computer engineer (basically digital vs analog knowledge thing). I was kind of wondering, also, about incorrect reporting of charge. But I was thinking the opposite ... incorrect report of 0%. My take/guess of this situation is the 12v system runs all the computers. When you drain that, all it's "intelligence" goes out the window and essentially the car can do nothing. Main/drive battery could be 100% but yet car is "Dead". When you jumped the 12v, it managed to get the computer "alive" enough for the car to start showing signs of life. But I suspect either for software or hardware reasons, what it was reporting wasn't trustworthy ... at least not yet. Perhaps a complete factory reset / reboot might have helped? Maybe that is what the dealer did?

Of course, to know for sure, would be to see what the charger actually reported as delivered to the car while at the dealer. But it's likely data they didn't note / have access to. And also, the cheif concern here would be why the 12v drained down to begin with?
 
#35 ·
Interesting. I do know that when the 12v was jumped, the main battery showed 0% charge. I’m not sure how they tested/measured, but the dealership did initially report that both the 12v and main batteries were dead when they brought the car in. I wonder- if the underlying problem was a failure of the 12v battery and/or the 12v charging system, would the main battery drain itself while continually attempting to charge the 12v? Seems very likely that the two failures are related- it would be a bizarre coincidence if the 12v and main batteries failed independently but simultaneously!
 
#36 ·
Just had a call with the dealer's service department. I missed the beginning of the conversation (my wife took the call, and I joined on speaker), but the dealer apparently now says that the main battery was NOT fully discharged, and that the issues were entirely due to a discharged 12v battery. As far as I know, they did not discover any fault in the 12v charging system.

The dealer then went into "blame-the-driver" mode. She told us that Volvos must be driven 15-30 miles per day to maintain the 12v battery's charge. If we can't commit to driving 15-30 miles 365 days a year, we should purchase a trickle charger, and once a week we should pop all of the plastic panels under the frunk to expose the 12v battery and trickle charge the 12v overnight. She told us that this was an issue with ICE Volvos as well- they drain the 12v battery because of "all the technology" and thus must be driven 15-30 miles a day.

I asked her if this recommendation was documented in a service bulletin from Volvo, or if this was just her opinion. She told me that this recommendation is "in the owner's manual." Of course, it is not.

The owner's manual does say this about the 12v:

Under normal conditions, the 12V battery is charged at the same time as the car is charged, as well as via current transmission from the high voltage battery when the car is not connected for charging.

Seems to suggest that if the main battery has been charged a high level, the 12v should also have been charged while the main battery was charging, no? Not clear exactly what the second part means ("...as well as via current transmission..."), but it certainly doesn't state that the car needs to be driven to charge the 12v. Does anyone know the conditions under which the 12v charges? Definitely during charging... but also while driving? While parked and not charging?

It would be insane if a normally-functioning 12v car battery could discharge completely in 36 hours, even if it were not trickle-charging from the main battery while parked.

The owner's manual also has recommendations for long-term storage, which they consider to be periods of longer than a month... which suggests that 36 hours should be fine!

At the very least, we seem to have some problem with the 12v charging system, though I don't think there's any way of knowing whether this was a hardware or a software problem... and thus hard to know if it's fixed!
 
#124 ·
Just had a call with the dealer's service department. I missed the beginning of the conversation (my wife took the call, and I joined on speaker), but the dealer apparently now says that the main battery was NOT fully discharged, and that the issues were entirely due to a discharged 12v battery. As far as I know, they did not discover any fault in the 12v charging system.

The dealer then went into "blame-the-driver" mode. She told us that Volvos must be driven 15-30 miles per day to maintain the 12v battery's charge. If we can't commit to driving 15-30 miles 365 days a year, we should purchase a trickle charger, and once a week we should pop all of the plastic panels under the frunk to expose the 12v battery and trickle charge the 12v overnight. She told us that this was an issue with ICE Volvos as well- they drain the 12v battery because of "all the technology" and thus must be driven 15-30 miles a day.

I asked her if this recommendation was documented in a service bulletin from Volvo, or if this was just her opinion. She told me that this recommendation is "in the owner's manual." Of course, it is not.

The owner's manual does say this about the 12v:

Under normal conditions, the 12V battery is charged at the same time as the car is charged, as well as via current transmission from the high voltage battery when the car is not connected for charging.

Seems to suggest that if the main battery has been charged a high level, the 12v should also have been charged while the main battery was charging, no? Not clear exactly what the second part means ("...as well as via current transmission..."), but it certainly doesn't state that the car needs to be driven to charge the 12v. Does anyone know the conditions under which the 12v charges? Definitely during charging... but also while driving? While parked and not charging?

It would be insane if a normally-functioning 12v car battery could discharge completely in 36 hours, even if it were not trickle-charging from the main battery while parked.

The owner's manual also has recommendations for long-term storage, which they consider to be periods of longer than a month... which suggests that 36 hours should be fine!

At the very least, we seem to have some problem with the 12v charging system, though I don't think there's any way of knowing whether this was a hardware or a software problem... and thus hard to know if it's fixed!
Not much chance of me leaving the car at the airport for a fortnight then! Come home to a flat battery, this is stupid and Volvo head office should be told of this stupid remark from the dealer! I don't think I'm the only one that has to leave a car at the airport for a few days.
(My car had to be towed 270 miles because the traction battery would not charge - I was told nobody else has had these issues, think volvo should read this forum). Had it nearly a year and getting rid of it in June, bought a Volvo for its good name and had a XC60 T8 prior to this. Now bought an MG half the price so half the moaning when things go wrong.
 
#37 · (Edited)
That's utter BS. I don't know how Volvo customer service works, but I'd try to kick this up to Volvo HQ ASAP.

Edit: The issue described by your dealer is something I'm familiar with. My BRZ has had that problem. Of course, I know exactly what was causing it: an aftermarket wiring harness I had installed. (Which was exacerbated by the teeny-tiny stock battery (390 CCA) that came with my car.) The upshot is that it would lose charge after maybe 4+ days without driving. Eventually the harness manufacturer figured out which wire needed to be cut, which significantly reduced the draw while not in use. But even with this fix the car still needs a trickle charger if I don't drive it for more than a week. But again, that's a combination of my aftermarket stuff plus undersized stock battery.

TL/DR: Any brand new, unmodified car should be able to sit at least a couple of weeks without the 12V losing charge. Losing charge after just a few days means SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE FIXED.
 
#40 ·
I agree, That is utter BS. This is my third fourth electric car. I have left them undriven for up to a week without issues. 12V battery failure is due to an unexplained voltage drain from a circuit that should not be active, or a bad 12 volt battery that is not holding the charge.

Step one:
Have someone check the 12 volt circuit draw when the car is off. A small drain is normal. Anything over the factory established draw means there is a faulty circuit or aftermarket product that is drawing current....

Step two;
Replace the 12 volt battery. New cars can have bad batteries. I have had that experience with a brand new ICE that failed to start on several occasions. After three jump starts, the dealer replaced the battery. Problem solved.

As a curious concern, is this BS about daily driving from the dealer, the manager or the salesperson?

I would contact Volvo Corporate...they have an email customer service and they do respond, and let them know what is going on.
 
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